Enhancing Collaboration Between Wedding Planners and Church Coordinators

Why do so many wedding planners and church coordinators clash during the happiest day of a couple's life?" This episode of the Wedding Planner Pro Files Podcast is an eye-opener as we unravel the frequent misunderstandings and miscommunications that often arise between wedding planners and church staff. Emma Cockerham, with her experience in wedding planning and as a certified educator, shares both heartwarming and frustrating real-life stories, including the emotional turmoil caused when church staff forget crucial details like the bride's name. Emma's insights emphasize the dire need for clear communication and mutual respect to create a joyful and harmonious wedding environment.

Neglecting church coordinators in the wedding planning process can lead to chaos and disjointed ceremonies. Krisy Thomas, our co-host and wedding planning expert, delves into the consequences of excluding these key players. She underscores the importance of treating church coordinators with the same respect as other wedding professionals to ensure a smooth flow on the big day. Emma provides actionable advice for church coordinators on adopting a cooperative mindset and shares strategies for wedding planners to establish a better rapport with church staff, stressing the importance of patience and proactive communication.

Ready to revolutionize church wedding coordination? Discover the new Wedding Ministry Certification Program, co-developed with the CWP Society, designed to streamline communication, uphold church traditions, and enhance collaboration among all wedding professionals. We also introduce the Ministry Membership Program, a unique gift opportunity for churches to access perpetual support and alignment with their activities. Join our compassionate CWP Society community to engage in meaningful discussions and continuous self-education. Visit cwpsociety.com to learn more and help create exceptional wedding experiences that truly reflect the spirit of the church.

www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety

Transcript

Church Coordinator Relationships & Wedding Planning

Speaker 1 0:00

Welcome to the Wedding Planner Profiles Podcast brought to you by the CWP Society.

Speaker 2 0:15

Welcome to the Wedding Planner Profiles Podcast. It's brought to you by the CWP Society, where wedding planners and professionals collaborate to raise the standards in the wedding industry. Now the CWP Society is also the world's largest membership of wedding professionals and the leading wedding planner certification program. My name is Lori Hartwell and I'm the CEO alongside my fabulous co-host and vice president of the CWP Society, chrissy Thomas, who is also the owner of Southern Sparkle Weddings. Hey, chrissy, how the heck are you love?

Speaker 1 0:47

Hey, lori, I am doing quite wonderful. Thank you for asking and hello to all of our amazing listeners. Today we will be discussing the subject of church coordinators and church staff, along with our special guest, emma Cockerham. Emma is a CWP Society certified educator, master, certified Planner and Certified Wedding Design Consultant. With nearly 15 years in the industry. She is the owner of Infinity Events, a full-service wedding planning and design company based in Memphis. Hello, emma.

Speaker 3 1:17

Hey guys, how are you doing? Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 1:20

We are so good, so good, so good. We're just thrilled to have you here. You're one of our darling educators and today we are wanting to really have a deep discussion and a meaningful discussion about our relationship with churches.

Speaker 2 1:39

Attends church felt like you were actually running into situations on wedding weekends as a wedding planner with church staff that kind of felt as though there was some misunderstandings of the roles that a wedding planner holds or a church coordinator holds, and it has led to kind of feeling as though there's some sort of wall and distance between the church and those participating in those wedding weekends, like the couple, the wedding party and the entire family. And that eventually led to you contacting me and saying all right, lori, we've got to change this. What can we do together? And that led us to have the CWP Society, along with you and Chrissy myself, a senior pastor to actually put together what's now called the Wedding Ministry Certification Program. But before we jump into that amazing program, let's first kind of talk about some of the experiences that you, as well as other wedding planners and professionals, have had when our clients are actually getting married in the church. So what comes to mind when you hear things like this?

Speaker 3 2:42

Oh my goodness, there are so many things that I have experienced and other wedding planners that we've spoken to over the past few years talking about this, but really what it comes down to, I think, is just reactions from poor understanding of each other.

Speaker 3 2:57

So you know, if these church coordinators have it in their minds that we're there to stomp on them, they're not going to come at us with kindness and respect and vice versa, and so really it's kind of exploded into some really bad experiences. I think across the board I had one incident where the church coordinator forgot the bride's name like six times during the rehearsal and like there was never like an apology. It was just kind of this thing and it was so it was so sad to watch it and not be able to step in and help. Did she mention it at all afterwards? She was really hurt by it. You know, it's kind of a weekend where they're preparing themselves whether they're center of attention, people or not. They're preparing themselves to be the center of attention and to be gracious about that, and then to kind of have the opposite happen, where the you don't matter to me attitude happened to this poor bride. I don't think she really knew how to to handle it.

Speaker 1 3:52

Her, her wedding party was really sweet and kind of made a comic thing of it, but it's hard as the wedding planner to step, to set back and not be able to step in and really help the situation for for the sake of the vendor and for the couple right and I know too, emma, part of your why behind approaching us about this is because you do attend church on a regular basis and you look at weddings as an opportunity for these churches to kind of minister not so, you know, have a full-on sermon, but kind of provide the people who are a part of the wedding party, a part of the family, a glimpse into what it's like to be a part of their church and their congregation. And if what they see is things like forgetting the bride's name or being hostile and mean, the church coordinator may not realize the impact that that actually has on the church and those wedding party members feel like if this is what church is like on a wedding weekend, I certainly am not going to come on Sunday. Members feel like if this is what church is like on a wedding weekend, I certainly am not going to come on Sunday. You know, you look at this as an opportunity for them to kind of minister the word in front of these people who may or may not be going to church.

Speaker 3 4:52

Oh for sure. You know, any ministry that a church provides is, at its heart, a reason and a way to extend the kingdom and to be open open-handed to the public. And with weddings, you have an incredible opportunity in front of you. There are typically hundreds of people in attendance in the house of the Lord, whether they believe or not, and you have an opportunity here, at the very minimum, to plant a seed, and I think that's being lost. I even spoke to my own church about it and they kind of agreed with me when I was able to talk to them a little bit about this attitude that we're seeing across the board. They're like you know, I agree, we don't look forward to weddings. We come into it with already like just an attitude of I'm over this without being able to live in the joy of a union of two people, which is beautiful, yeah, and I'm wondering do you feel like some churches feel this way?

Speaker 2 5:47

Church coordinators feel this way towards weddings because they've had bad experiences with some wedding planners who have a lack of respect for other people and other facilities and they kind of come in maybe coming in hot, if you will, and not really valuing other people and where they are and where they're coming from.

Speaker 3 6:10

Oh, absolutely. You know the planners, and there are professional planners that do this too, unfortunately. But there are planners that come into their relationships with all vendor types okay With a, you will do what I say to do rather than coming at it with a collaborative spirit of a group of creatives that a couple has hired Right. So there's two different mentalities that planners come at it with. So I think that when they do that with a church, it's immediately convey a disrespect, not just for the person or for their business but for a religion, and it makes a lot of defensive attitudes come out. You have that a couple of times. As a church coordinator, you're not going to like planners. To top it all off, there is, you know, family members, or you know an Aunt Jane, if you will, who comes in as the wedding planner and does not give wedding planners a great name across the world, especially not real professional wedding planners who value our jobs and respect the people we work with.

Speaker 2 7:07

Oh, my goodness, that could not be more true. So I mean, that's why I'm glad I'm talking about it, because I think that it's so interesting, because we see things from so many different perspectives and Chrissy and I from an educator's point of view, and you as from an educator point of view, I can see both sides, you know. We can see all the different angles and the different perspectives that are coming at this, because there are some amazing wedding planners that have no idea about the past experience that the church coordinator has gone through with some maybe less than respectful planners or, like you were saying, emma, a friend or an aunt or whatever it is and we have no idea. Those great wedding planners are coming in having no idea that this is even a possibility that I might get treated poorly based on past experience, and so there can be some serious hurt feelings. So I feel like that's why these conversations need to kind of take place, and this is why I want to make sure that the church and their entire staff has a way of understanding that not every wedding planner is bad.

Speaker 2 8:13

In fact, the majority of professional wedding planners are actually terrific, beautiful human beings that care very deeply about making everyone happy, and not just their couple, but there are also a couple bad eggs, just like I don't want to put every church coordinator that has ever been mean to me and label all of them by saying, well then, they're all horrible, when honestly, it's probably just a select few who are maybe genuinely not nice.

Speaker 2 8:42

Most of them, I think, are very nice, and even out of the ones that are really nice, some of them, I think, are very nice, and even out of the ones that are really nice, some of them have had really terrible experiences, and how could we blame them for protecting themselves and to try to make sure that they are extra, extra clear, what we're allowed to do, what we're not allowed to do, because they're so used to not being respected and not being listened to, and that really drives me crazy, crazy. That's why, in our main wedding planner certification the one that you took, emma, 100 years ago, the one chrissy took, uh, about a thousand years ago we talk about this like, how about this? Let's make sure that we look at it from a different perspective. Make sure that you're being kind. Set up an appointment, ask them what their role is, ask them what they want your role to be, let them know that you're not the enemy, that you really want to make everything smooth and seamless for the wedding day. What are your thoughts there?

Speaker 3 9:34

I think that connection and communication is really the key here. You know, while we were working on this course and talking about this subject so much, I had reached out to a couple of wedding planners locally that I trust and respect and know that they are kind, and you know even specific ones who are believers and talk to them about church weddings to see how they handle it. And I was really shocked to find that a lot of them put it in their contract that they won't go to the church, that they're not about the church and it's because they're protecting themselves. But honestly, it's kind of contributing to the problem at hand right.

Speaker 3 10:05

We have great planners that are walking in the building and showing the difference that we can make. So that's why I'm really excited about the course.

Collaborating With Church Coordinators

Speaker 2 10:13

Really is that the CWP Society can be a part of a change you know, I love that you said that, emma, like what a very cool thing to say and I'm actually I saw Chrissy and I's face when you said that, because I think she and I were both a little taken aback by that that there are some wedding planners well known and great planners who say, yeah, if your wedding's at a church, I won't go there, you'll have to just deal with the church coordinator. That does make me sad and I think you made a really good point that that does not actually help the situation. Oh there, you'll have to just deal with the church coordinator.

Speaker 1 10:52

That does make me sad and I think you made a really good point that that does not actually help the situation.

Speaker 1 10:55

Chrissy, what are your thoughts there? Not only doesn't it doesn't help the situation, it also doesn't help the industry as a whole, I feel like, because when you think about a wedding day, especially as a planner, we are typically the point person for every single person involved. So when you're cutting out one specific person the church coordinator or the church staff that would hurt my feelings as a church coordinator. Like that would not make me feel like planners at all want to work with us directly and I know, emma, that's something that you educate on is that we have to start treating church coordinators the same way that we treat all of our other wedding pros on wedding day? Are you asking them the right questions? Are you including them in the timeline process? Are you collaborating with them? And unfortunately, a lot of planners are not. They're not putting that church coordinator into the equation at all, and that's where that miscommunication ultimately leads to the feelings of no respect. It also leads to just what could be a chaotic day in my thought process as well.

Speaker 3 11:47

Yeah, it really adds like a disjointed flow, which is kind of the root of our job, is it not? You know, like really making this?

Speaker 2 11:54

flow.

Speaker 3 11:55

And if you're a designer, the design can be disjointed if you're completely to separate yourself from that particular venue. So there's, I don't. I don't understand that mentality other than just self-protective right, and sometimes we do have to protect ourselves.

Speaker 2 12:09

I mean, I know that that's our human instinct is make sure we avoid all situations that make us uncomfortable or make it. But if there is a chance that we could make some changes, if there is a chance that we, as the outsider, can plant some seeds as to the fact that we're not bad, where?

Speaker 3 12:30

we are.

Speaker 2 12:31

You know our intentions are good. We want the best for everybody, you know. Then, I think that we should do things that will contribute to that and will at least be resolution based. But I mean all wedding planners have had at least be resolution based. But I mean all wedding planners have had.

Speaker 2 12:48

Every wedding planner I've known, and including the three women who are on this call today, have had some very challenging experiences when working with them, and you know I've tried. There are some churches where I try to do all the right things. I called ahead of time Hi, do you mind if I schedule a time? I'm such and such's wedding planner and I want to make sure that I have all of your policies and everything in place so that I can pass that information along to the videographer, the photographer and any of the readers, and I wanted everyone to be on the same page.

Speaker 2 13:19

I got a lot of pushback, a lot of no, I don't have time to talk to you, you're not the couple, so I don't deal with you. So I did get a lot of that. I also got even worse than that. In the past there have been times where I was treated very, very poorly when trying to do the right thing. So, Emma, what advice do you have for church coordinators who are listening today, when they're approached by a professional wedding planner not Aunt Sally, even though I think we should be nice to Aunt Sally too. We should be nice to everybody. But that's just me, but you know, if they are, you know, approached by a professional wedding planner, how do you think they should see it? What should the mindset be?

Enhancing Church Wedding Coordination

Speaker 3 14:04

Laura, I'm really glad that you asked this question because I did a kind of a group meeting with the ladies that run the weddings at my own church about this course and talking about it, and that's really something that came up. And from a church coordinator perspective, my advice is to first of all approach each wedding planner and give them the benefit of the doubt is to first of all approach each wedding planner and give them the benefit of the doubt, but also cover your own tail. So we talked about this a little bit in that meeting, where it depends on the church policies whether it's the church coordinator who comes up with processional order or if it's the wedding planner. But either way, both parties need to be fully informed. And if it's the church policy to let the planner do it, then great.

Speaker 3 14:47

But you should still have it written out, be it from the wedding planner's timeline or in your own notes, because if that planner turns out to not be the professional that you're hoping she is, then you can step in and run a ceremony if necessary. You have the information at hand to do that. And I would give the same advice to a wedding planner Work with the church coordinator, bring her a coffee. Make sure that she knows you're a team player and then also get the same information that she's communicating to your couple and put it in your timeline so that if she needs you or something happens on their end, that you can do your job and step in and actually be the wedding planner for your couple.

Speaker 1 15:24

We need to be a team player. All of this basically mentions just working together and communicating, which, let's be honest, that's all that sums up what it's like to be a wedding planner we communicate and we work well with others.

Speaker 2 15:41

That is really what an ultimate professional is supposed to be like, and I don't think that the title of ultimate professional should be just outside of the church. I think it can even be within the church, and I think especially within the church because of some of the points that you had mentioned in the beginning of this talk. The whole point of the church is to be there for the community and to spread the word of God, and so, if your message is not being received the way you were hoping it to be received, because there's anger, resentment, a wall being built, because you're trying to protect the church in a way that you don't want to be taken advantage of, you don't want people to come in and destroy the church which, by the way, is all very understandable but you are missing really beautiful and valuable opportunities, and those opportunities are to demonstrate what the church is supposed to be all about in the first place. You know, we were talking to our senior pastor, ken, about all of these things and and he was so excited to jump on board with creating what is now called the Wedding Ministry Certification, and he was excited because he, as the senior pastor, had been dealing with weddings his entire career I mean, I'm talking 20, 30 years and he felt like it was very chaotic.

Speaker 2 17:07

A lot of times, the couples when there isn't a wedding planner, it can be even more chaotic, mainly because, let's be honest, a lot of couples don't really know what they're doing and why they're doing it and how they're supposed to be doing it, and they don't know who to talk to, why to talk to them and what to say when they do talk to them, and it can be a mess like a hot mess. So when Ken heard that we were wanting to put something like this together, he said oh yes, this needs to happen. So how about this, emma? Why don't you? Because you played such a huge and intricate role on not just creating this certification alongside of CWP Society, but a lot of this was your brain baby, okay. So why don't you talk to everybody about what this course will do, not only for the church staff, but for wedding planners and wedding professionals like videographers and photographers as well?

Speaker 3 18:02

Yeah for sure. So I mean the beginning of the purpose behind it is really helping the church coordinators work well with not just their facilities and their policies but the vendor teams and the couples. And that includes communicating well what the policies are to protect the actual church and the respect and the traditions that are required in a church wedding right? So I think that's kind of the main topper piece of it. And this verse doesn't just go into hey, really, like wedding planners, I promise we're good for you. It's more than that. It goes into how do you as a church work well with others but also protect what is so sacred and valuable to you, right?

Speaker 3 18:48

So we go into policies and procedures, how to communicate those with your vendor teams within, without a planner, like streamlining communication with couples, things that are. They seem like an obvious answer to us as wedding planners, right Like the border of booking for different vendors, but if that's not what you do, there's no way you would know that. So talking to somebody three months after they're engaged and saying, hey, give me your whole list of vendors, that's not going to happen. So we even go into like the order of booking and how quickly these questions can or should be asked in a typical engagement journey. I think it's a really good kind of starting point.

Speaker 2 19:24

Yeah, I really love that. I think it's going to be very helpful, not only even from the church coordinator perspective. It's going to be very helpful not only even from the church coordinator perspective, but a lot of information has been provided by the senior pastor who did a lot of the teachings within this certification program. He taught a lot of things to pastors that might really help pastors understand a couple of different changes and a couple of helpful things that he had helped him in the past that they might want to take on. It can also help some of the other staff members at the church, like custodial staffing and like the sound people, everyone in charge. And if your hand, if you're working at a church and your hand is anywhere on a wedding, this is going to be a program that is going to help your entire church staff and it will help you have a better understanding. We even give downloads on questions to ask couples so that you have a great detail of what it is that your couple is even looking for. So you're right, emma, it's not all about how to work with wedding planners and please stop being mean to us. It's not that, even though we would love for you to stop being mean to us. It's not that even though we would love for you to stop being mean to us, it's just that it's really I feel and you feel, chrissy, feels everybody who's had a part of this particular certification has all had this one agreement is it's deeper than that. Let's dig all the way to the bottom and and get all the old dead roots out. Let's start from the foundation so that what we can do is build on love, kindness, the word of god, and we can make sure that everything that comes out of that is going to be good for every area of the church. And if that means weddings and everything and everyone that is attached to that wedding, and that includes not just the couple, but it's going to be their entire wedding party, it's going to be their entire family, it's going to be their entire wedding professional team and then, in extension from all of that, it's going to be every single guest that comes to that event. That's hundreds of people that you have an ability to touch in a positive and beautiful, kind, empathetic, compassionate way, week after week after week, and so that's what I want to encourage. That's why I'm so grateful that you brought this to me five years ago and said I've got an idea, laura, I really want to figure out what to do here, and I'm like, and we jumped all over it. So I'm so glad that we did, because of all of the crazy experiences that I've had, the crazy experiences that Chrissy has had.

Speaker 2 22:02

I've heard some stories from Chrissy. Some of them are just heartbreaking. And, emma, I've heard a lot of your stories while we were working through some of this too, and some of these stories are scary, some of them are sad, but I think we can change that. I think we can turn a negative into a positive, not just from how wedding planners need to start respecting facilities more like churches, but I think once churches start to see that they can trust us and we are out for the good of everyone involved, they're going to start probably reacting a little bit different as well, and so that's what. That's my goal, that's my intention with all of this. So any final words, chrissy, I'm going to, I'm going to start with you Any final words here.

Speaker 1 22:47

I kind of look at this as like, like you mentioned, what an opportunity this is for the churches to really impact the lives that are stepping foot into their church every Saturday night when they have a wedding. All of those people that the church coordinator, the sound tech can impact just from being kind and just from showing grace, and just from being efficient and on top of their game, it can make an impact, so a positive impact at that. So I think you're right in that if they could go back to that root and their heart of finding that service mindset again and knowing that this is just an opportunity for us to minister and an opportunity for us to showcase all of these people what we're about at our church, that what an opportunity that is. And I think, with the certification program that's just going to hopefully allow them to find that joy in their heart but also give them the right tools needed to make their wedding days the most efficient way possible.

Speaker 3 23:40

I love that.

Speaker 3 23:41

One of the things I love about this course and my hope for it in, you know, big picture hope, is that it doesn't only change how church coordinators approach it but it changes the way that wedding planners approach it, and so that this rift that's in this relationship can really be mended and we can come together and work together and that will honestly lift up so much in the wedding industry in its entirety, not just with churches but as an overall arching, I guess, theme.

Speaker 3 24:11

I know that if, depending on what part of the country you're in, whatever most prominent religion that's in your area, and as wedding planners, we may, you know, see a lot of those weddings, and me I'm from the Bible Belt, so we have a lot of church weddings and they kind of become almost like monotonous, like, oh, it's just a regular wedding, you call it a regular wedding and that's just not truth, right, and there's a little bit of almost disrespect that's in that and I'm guilty of it too, I know pretty much everybody I know is guilty of this, right. But then you get a wedding that's a new religion and you're like, oh, challenge, let me do all this research and come at it with all this respect, if we were able to change our own paradigm and come at this with okay, this is a different Methodist church that I'm going to, you know, or whatever and approach it with that same type of respect we can be doing our part as planners to start helping with that relationship.

Speaker 3 25:04

And then this course is really at the heart of it what these church coordinators can do to do their part too.

Speaker 2 25:11

I love that. I love that. I think this is a that was a perfect thing to kind of end this podcast on, and I really just number one appreciate I know Christy and I both appreciate so much that you took time to come out and talk to us a little bit about this today, and I really hope that this podcast is going to be helpful to those who are listening, whether they are wedding planners or those who work at churches.

Church Membership Program Promotion

Speaker 2 25:34

And so if anybody who is listening is interested in learning more about this amazing wedding ministry certification program. You can find that at cwpsocietycom. You can even gift this course, this certification, to your church, if that's something you want, which would be a write off but churches you would be able to get this yourselves, and we do something a little bit different for churches than we do for everybody else, where there is an expiration on all of our certifications, but there is not an expiration when it comes to this certification for the church. What we've done is we are going to leave it on the dashboard, because we know that there is a high turnover at churches for additional staffing. This way, this program will be on the church's dashboard forever and any new people who the church brings on will be able to watch this, and that way, everybody can be on the same page.

Speaker 2 26:33

So I highly encourage anybody who's listening to either gift it for the church or, if you are the church, gift it to yourself and see it as what it is, which was a gift. It was a gift provided by Emma and Lori and Chrissy and Ken and the entire staff here at CWP Society. So thank you all for listening to the Wedding Planner Profiles podcast. If you're not yet a member of the CWP Society, we would sure love to welcome you into our family. We have a lot of just, kind, compassionate, empathetic members who are always loving the chat and talking and educating ourselves. So if this is something you're interested in, would like some more information, go to our website cwpsocietycom and learn how you can join for free. Have a great day everyone.