The ROI You're Not Calculating

You can be fully booked and still feel like you're starting over every January.

That gap — between staying busy and actually building something — is exactly what this episode is about. So many wedding planners and coordinators invest in client-facing upgrades while quietly avoiding the one investment that compounds over time: their own professional development.

Matt Mitchell, Co-Founder and CEO of Event Ledger — a bookkeeping and advisory firm built specifically for event professionals — joins Senior Educator of the CWP Society, Krisy Thomas to talk about why that pattern exists and what it's actually costing us. Matt has been on both the planning side and the finance side, which means he doesn't just understand the numbers — he translates them into real wedding-world decisions.

Together, they dig into why education gets treated like a reward instead of a business strategy, how "creative martyr syndrome" keeps planners undervaluing their own growth, and what it really looks like to take professional development seriously before another year slips by.

Matt shares three straightforward ROI tests to use before saying yes to any certification or masterclass — can it support a 5% pricing increase, will it save you hours per project, and will it help you avoid the kind of costly mistakes that quietly damage your referral reputation. He also gets concrete about what a financially healthy wedding planning business actually looks like: paying yourself consistently, planning for taxes, understanding your net profit margin, and knowing your effective hourly rate so that being "busy" doesn't quietly become burnout.

If you're ready to stop pricing on instinct and start building real authority in this industry, this one's for you.

Subscribe, share this episode with a planner friend, and leave a review so more event professionals can find it. And ask yourself: what's the next investment you're willing to make in your own career?

www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You're listening to the Wedding Planner Society podcast, brought to you by the CWP Society.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome to the Wedding Planner Society podcast, brought to you by the CWP Society, the world's premier wedding planner certification program and membership. I'm Christy Thomas, senior educator here with the CWP Society, and I'm really glad that you are tuning in here today. I want to start by asking you to think about the last time you spent money on your business. Maybe it was a new contract template, a software subscription, maybe invested in a styled chute or even a wedding show booth. I want you to think about the last time you invested in yourself as a professional, not in your brand, not in your marketing, not even in your client experience, but in you, in the person who runs the business, makes the decisions, leads the team, and stands in front of clients who are trusting you with one of the most significant days of their lives. If that answer came a little slower, or maybe not at all, you're not alone. And that's exactly what we're going to be talking about today. Here's something that I've noticed over the years working with wedding planners and coordinators at every stage of their careers. We are remarkably good at spending money on things that serve our clients, but we are remarkably reluctant to spend money on things that serve ourselves. And I understand why. You know, when you're running a service-based business, especially in those early years, every dollar feels like it needs to justify itself immediately. You can point to a new website and say, well, a client found me there. You can point to a venue tour and say, I've built a relationship from that. But when you spend money on education or certification, the return doesn't always show up within the next 30 days. And sometimes it makes it harder to feel as if it counts. Here's what I want to challenge you with today. That's not actually how investment works. When you invest in something, truly invest, not just spend, that return will come and it maybe not just will come, not all at once. And the planners and coordinators I've watched built the kind of careers that last, the ones who raise their rates with confidence and hold them, the ones who attract their ideal clients who trust them before the first consultation is even over. Those planners made a decision early on that their own development was worth the same level of intention that they gave everything else in their business. You know, I want to tell you something I think a lot of planners need to hear, but don't always get the space to sit with. There's a difference between being busy and building something. And I want to say that one more time. There's a difference between being busy and building something. And I know that sounds simple and it may even sound a little bit obvious, but I want you to really think about it because I've watched incredibly talented wedding planners and coordinators run full calendars year after year, book after book, season after season, and yet they still feel like they're starting over every single January. They still feel like they're one slow month away from being panicked. And they still feel like they haven't quite arrived at the version of their business they imagined when they first started. And it has nothing to do with the fact that they're not working hard, but it's because busyness and building are not the same thing. One keeps you moving, but the other takes you somewhere. Building requires intention. It requires you to make decisions, real deliberate decisions, about what kind of career you're constructing, not just what kind of wedding you can pull off this weekend, but what kind of professional you are becoming over time, what you want clients to say when they refer you, and what you want to still be doing and loving 10 years from now. That kind of thinking is different. And it starts with a question most planners haven't asked directly. Are you investing in the person who runs the business with the same care you put into the business itself? I think about planners and coordinators I've had the privilege of watching grow in this industry and the ones who made intentional moves, who said, I'm going to learn this, I'm going to get better at it, and I'm going to hold myself to a standard that I'm proud of. Those planners didn't just get busier, they got clearer. And that clarity shows up everywhere. It shows up in how they talk about their services. There's no apologizing for their pricing. They've done the work of knowing what they know, and that shows. It shows up in how their clients even treat them. You know, when you walk into a consultation with a genuine foundation, not just years in the industry, but actual structured preparation, people will feel that. Because there's a steadiness to you that communicates something important. This person knows exactly what they're doing. And it also shows up in how they handle those hard moments. Because, guys, trust me, this industry has a lot of hard moments. The planners who navigate those moments gracefully, who stay calm and decisive and don't freeze, they're not doing this on luck, but they're doing it on preparation. That's what building looks like from the inside. And here's the part that I think is the most important. We can be remarkably good as wedding planners and coordinators at advocating for our clients. We will sit across from a couple and walk them through why a certain investment matters for their day. We'll explain the value, we'll reframe what they thought was too much into something that makes complete sense when they understand what they're actually getting. And we do that with confidence because we believe in it. But when it comes to our own growth, when it comes to putting money, time, and energy into ourselves, so many of us lose that same confidence. We use the exact same language on our couples that we'd push back from on a client. Oh, I'll wait till I have more time or I'll do it when it feels more practical. I need to see the return before I commit. Imagine saying that to a couple about their florists. Imagine telling them to hold off on booking the professional they actually want because they need to see the return first. You wouldn't say that because you understand how the investment works. So the question I want you to ask yourself is why don't we extend the same wisdom to ourselves? You are the most important asset in your business. Your brand, your website, your portfolio, yes, all those things are important, but so are you. And the way you grow, the way you show up, and the way you prepare yourself for this work, that deserves the same level of attention you give everything else. Most of us came into wedding planning because we love weddings. We love the emotion of it, the creativity, the relationships, and that love that we have for what we do is real and it's valid. It's part of what makes this industry so meaningful. But that love and that passion doesn't protect you from scope creep. It doesn't prepare you to price your services in a way that is actually sustainable. And it doesn't tell you how to handle a vendor conflict the morning of a wedding. Preparation does that. Credentials do that, certification does that. And here's where the conversation about investment gets really interesting because there are two things that credentials do that I think planners underestimate. The first is internal. When you've done the work, when you've gone through a rigorous certification process, when you've been evaluated and you have something to show for it, the way you carry yourself in this industry actually changes. It's not because you suddenly know everything, but because you have a foundation. You're not guessing, you're not winging it and hoping the next client doesn't ask you something you can't answer. That confidence is quiet, but it's real. Now, the second is external, actually. And this is the one that directly connects you to your bottom line. The moment you hold a recognized credential, you're no longer presenting yourself the same way to potential clients. You're not just asking them to take your word for it, but you're giving them something concrete. And concrete things such as certifications, they do something in the mind of a buyer that we often underestimate. They shift the conversation from can I trust this person to how do I work with this person? And that's not a small distinction. That's a difference between competing on price and charging what you're worth. Now I want to be careful here because trust me, guys, I am not the financial expert in this room. That distinction belongs separately to the guest I'm going to introduce to you. But what I can speak is to is to this decision, the mindset. The moment you stop asking, can I afford to invest in my credentials and start asking, what is it costing me not to? Because here's what I've seen with planners and coordinators who wait, who say, okay, when I'm more established or when I have more clients or when things slow down a little, those planners are treating professional development like a luxury. And when you treat something like a luxury, you keep putting it off. You find something else to spend money on because that feels more urgent. And then next thing you know, the year has passed. Now, the planners who are intentional, who budget for their own development the same way they budget for their marketing or their software, those are the planners who build something with longevity. They're not just surviving a busy season, they're building a career. And that's the thing about certification specifically is that it doesn't just represent what you know, it represents a commitment to the standard of this industry. It says I take this work seriously enough to be evaluated on it. I take my clients seriously enough to hold myself accountable because that matters. And guys, it has real financial implications, which is exactly why I am bringing in the person, perfect person to have this conversation with. And I'm excited about this conversation because he doesn't just understand the financial side of the business. He understands our world as wedding planners because he has stood where you stood. He has managed wedding days, navigated client relationships, and built something in this industry from the ground up. He is also no stranger to this podcast. It is Mr. Matt Mitchell, who is the co-founder and CEO of the Event Ledger, a bookkeeping and advisory firm built specifically for event professionals. And again, he's also a master certified wedding planner. So that combination of lived experience and wedding planning, but also deep financial expertise is exactly why this conversation is going to hit differently than your typical business finance episode. So, Matt, welcome back to the Wedding Planner Society podcast. Again, I always love having you here because, like I mentioned earlier, I am not the financial expert in this room. You are, but you're so good at explaining things because, like I said, you've lived in our shoes, you've been there, you've planned weddings, you know how our brain works and how we operate. So thank you for being back here.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Of course. Thanks for having me as always.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Absolutely. So, like I said, you've been on both sides of this, where you were a working wedding planner and now you spend your days helping event professionals understand their finances. So when you look back at your time as a planner, what's the one thing you wish you had understood earlier about treating your career as a real financial investment?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Well, Christy, I'll say luckily, I knew the value and sought out my education and certification before I even opened my doors to my clients. But I will say that looking back and seeing some other experience of other planners, I've had some realizations. And I realize that certification right out of the gate can be rare at times. So most planners that I've come across view education more as a reward, something that they'll treat themselves to after they've picked uh booked a big wedding, or maybe they've had a successful season, maybe they've hit a business goal. But that the mindset shift, which we talked about a minute ago, is that I want others to see that they are you are the most expensive employee in your business. A lot of people forget that. They might pay their their contractors, they might, you know, they whatever they are doing, they're valuing other people more than themselves. They are a person that is taking on a large liability. Like this company is in your name.

unknown 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Who's going to answer for it? It's you. So you are the most important, important employee, but you're also the most expensive because you are the one that's created this business. You have the knowledge of this craft. So you are the most expensive employee. When in finance talk, we talk a lot about capital expenditures. And technically, while this applies to property buildings and equipment, I think it's a good like example here because those are funds that you set aside to acquire, upgrade, or maintain assets that generate income in your business. So I like to use that as a way to as a metaphor. So if you're buying a faster laptop, you're investing in a tool. But you could think of education as a capital expenditure in yourself, right? So by you investing in certification, that is allowing you to upgrade the primary asset of your company, which is you, the business owner. It's about building the efficiency into your workflows. It's about giving you that psychological permission to stop undercharging. And you aren't just buying a certificate. You're establishing a higher floor for a lifetime earning potential. So it's not something that will just help you now. It's something that's going to compound year over year over year.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

I love the way that you worded it, that we are our most expensive employee. And I think I love that you said that because I think we've we've we do forget that we are the huge, we're the biggest piece of our business puzzle. Yet we because we always put ourselves aside. We always put ourselves at the bottom. We're always that missing puzzle piece. I'm like, why do we keep doing that? We have to be reminded that, like you said, we are the most expensive employee. I love the way that you said that. And I also love that you mentioned that most planners view education as a reward. I guess I was not that planner. I was right there with you, Matt. Like I immediately I had one book client. I was like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing. Let me get my certification. ASAP. My personal rewards for a great season or a big booking is a purse.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

So we know that. If you know Chrissy, you know that.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

So I guess education is a better reward than a purse, but again, it's not something that you should have to wait for. It's something that, like you said, that you should definitely invest in yourself. You know, there's a pattern I see, Matt, where a lot of planners and coordinators are incredibly thoughtful about how they budget and educate their clients on how to spend their money for their own wedding. You know, every line item is justified. But when it comes to investing in themselves, it suddenly feels like, like you mentioned earlier, this it's hard to justify. Why do you think this disconnect exists and what does it actually cost planners over time?

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Yeah, yeah. It's what I call creative martyr syndrome. Many of us in this event industry are wired to serve, right? We are here. It's something that brings us joy. We'll fight tooth and nail to get a client an extra$500 for their floral budget because we see the vision and we want it to happen. We see how excited it makes them. So we want it to happen because that brings us joy too. But when it comes to ourselves, we view that same$500 expense in our business uh as a loss rather than a seed for growth. So it's it's like, ah, well, I'm I'm giving up that$500. What could that$500 do for my business? So I think again, it's about that mindset shift of what is that actual$500 doing for you? Is it just an expense or is it a seed for future growth? And I think any kind of education is certainly a seed for future growth. But something I want to also mention is what is the cost here? It's it's an opportunity cost. Every year you wait to get certified or to streamline a portion of your business is another year that you're likely leaving 10 to 20% of potential revenue on the table because you either lack the confidence or the proof to command those higher rates. And over a five-year window, that what you considered a frivolous investment could literally cost you tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue. So again, it's it's it's all about figuring out is this a needless expense or is this a seed for future growth? And I think that will help people really decide on that this is not something frivolous. This is something that can really add to the benefit that I have, not only as a professional in this industry, but as a business owner.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, exactly. You know, Matt, when a planner or coordinator is trying to decide whether a certification or even just professional development investment makes financial sense to them, what does that evaluation look like? You know, what's the right questions maybe they should be asking before saying yes or no to investing in themselves and their business?

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Great question. And I was almost about to answer this. So perfect segue. So I suggest that they ask three ROI, which is return on investment questions. So anytime, and this is for anything, like if you have a marketing expense, whatever it is, you should always be looking at the return on investment. Is there a return on investment? So the three questions that I would suggest you ask specifically when it comes to certification or professional development investments, there's three. One is the pricing power test. Does this credential allow me to raise my booking fee by even 5%? If the answer is yes, the investment usually pays for itself in one to two weddings. So that's a no-brainer, right? Wow. The second one is the efficiency test. Will this education save me five hours of guessing or manual research per project? Time is, as we know, a non-renewable resource. So saving time is saving money. And the third and final is the operational risk test. Does this prevent a costly logistical mistake or communication breakdown that could lead to either a refund to a client or even loss referrals because we didn't provide a great experience to one of our referring partners? So I would say if if it passes any of those, then it's it's a great investment. If it passes all three, it's a no-brainer.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Yeah, yeah, exactly. What I love about all three of these questions, because I think you're right, Matt, this can apply to everything we invest in our business, whether it's a software program, whether it's our marketing. Having all three of these questions is going to really determine whether or not it's gonna be worth your investment. I don't think people ask themselves these questions. I know for a fact when I first started, I didn't. It was just like, oh, you know, a shiny new software or something. I was like, yes, sign me up, sign me up. And next thing you know, I'm looking at my yearly expenses. I'm like, what have I been paying for? Like I'm not getting my return back on any of this stuff. So asking yourself these two questions before you make an investment in anything is going to serve you well.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah, I think, you know, I've said this before. Um, I think our industry goes on vibes a lot, whether it's pricing on vibes or figuring out, oh, software on vibes. You're right. I think a lot of times we're just we're it's are we feeling it or we're not? It's not that we're actually sitting down and we're asking ourselves strategically whether this would be a good fit. We're just vibing. We're like, hmm, I like the feel of it, I like that design, I think this would be great. And then what happens is we get down into it and we're like, hmm, well, this didn't go the way that I thought it would. And now we're looking for another solution. So I love vibes. I love good vibes, but let's make sure that we're also asking really important questions to make sure that the time and energy and effort that we're putting into those things are worth it. Because what did we just talk about? Time is a non-renewable resource.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Exactly, exactly. But then, like not only that, time, you've lost time, you've also lost money. If the vibes may have been right, but you're not getting a return back, money has been lost. I don't care how good you feel.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

You know, again, budgeting is something that most planners and coordinators would think about in terms of our clients' money. And we don't think about it on our own and our own money. What does it actually look like to build a personal professional development budget? And how should planners think about this as a recurring line item, maybe instead of just like a one-time decision?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Yeah, I think, you know, number one, you stop treating it like a leftover fund. In a healthy business, education should be a recurring line item. If you think about it, in a lot of other industries, they have continuing education that they have to meet each year. It's in finance, it's in healthcare, it's in law, it's in real estate. There's many others that have continuing education. That's a requirement to either keep their credentials or to be able to practice in that field. The same should be true for our industry. We see trends that are constantly changing. We see client buying habits that are constantly changing. We need to make sure that we're abreast of what's going on in our own industry. And because of this, I recommend that creative entrepreneurs set aside a specific fund. So maybe they're when they're looking at their budgeting, they can't. And set aside two, what I would say two to five percent of their gross or their total revenue. So again, if you sell a package, take two or five percent of that package price and set that aside in into an education line item on your budget. That way, when the CWP Society lease uh releases a new masterclass or an executive program or another certification, that money is already budgeted and already there in your account. And it's not something that you have to dwell over and and figure out how you're gonna make it work or you know, whatever the reason is. It's already there, it's already allocated, and it's something that you can quickly dive into and get to whenever you're ready.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I love that so much. I love that you call it the growth account. And like you said, my almost every other industry has some type of baseline for education anyway. But that continuing education, I think about one of my wonderful um wedding vendors who she does calligraphy, she started this business, she's just boomed, but she's an attorney. Like that was her nine to five. But she wants she wants to keep being being able to be a working and practicing attorney, so she has to take that test every single year. So we're doing that. So it should work the same way for us. I love that you call it the growth account. It's a really great idea. Now, Matt, a lot of wedding planners think that they're running a profitable business because they're booked and busy, but booked and busy is not the same as booked and profitable. What does a genuine financial healthy wedding planning business actually look like on paper? And what are the numbers planners should be paying attention to that most of us may not even be tracking at all?

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Yeah, I think this is the biggest aha moment for a lot of our clients at the event ledger and what we hear whenever we're doing talks. Busyness is a what we call a vanity metric. Profit is a sanity metric. So we want to make sure that we're not just focusing on, you know, booked and busy, booked and blissed, right? Here we are. We're we're going back to vibes here, you know? So we want to make sure that we're looking at those profit numbers and ensuring that we are actually financially healthy as a business. So a genuinely healthy business on paper, I would say there's a lot of factors that can go into this. But some what I would say for our industry and a lot of the pain points that I'm seeing as I speak with the owners, if you have these three things, then you are in, you're a healthy business. Number one is you as the owner is being paid. Again, we've talked about this. A lot of times we make sure that our contractors are paid or our other employees are paid. But sometimes we say, Oh, I'll skip this pay and I'll I'll just take it later. But it's important that you, as the most important asset and the most expensive employee in your business, that you're also getting paid. So you aren't just living off of whatever's left over, but that you're ensuring that you have a set salary or a draw that's coming out of your account. It's also important because if you are working this hard, which I know you are, and you're not getting paid for it, what's that gonna do? It's gonna lead to burnout. And you, this is not gonna be a company or an industry that you're finding fulfilling anymore. And so we don't want that to happen. Next is tax clarity. I know a lot of people feel surprised come this time of year in April, when they are getting ready for tax season and they didn't expect to see such a large tax bill. So if you are already not only paying estimated quarterly taxes, or if you don't have to, but you're you're setting aside funds to pay taxes, then it's not surprising you. You're already prepared and it's not a setback. It's something you already expected and it's easy for you to reconcile and move on. The next is the net profit margin. So I've talked about this a few times. This is a little bit convoluted. Um, so if you don't know how to do your net profit margin, uh, you can certainly Google it. But what it's doing is looking at your revenues and taking out your expenses to be able to figure out what is your net profit after all of that. So when I when you say net profit, think of it as um, for instance, if you had a 20% net profit margin, you're making 20 cents off of every dollar that you're bringing in. So that's what that is. And in our industry, I would say because there are just tons of different types of services, service-based businesses within our industry, that profit margin can be pretty large. But I would say you should be aiming somewhere between 50, 15 to 30% net profit margin. And that's again after all expenses are paid and owner salary is paid. Um, so but one other thing that I want to mention is the effective hourly rate. I I don't know if planners have actually sat down and figured out what their hourly rate is. And I think that that is a huge thing for planners specifically. Because if you book, let's just say you had um a wedding package that costs$10,000, but you spent over 200 hours on it because you didn't have the right systems or the education to be efficient in place, then you're most likely making less than minimum wage at that point. So it's important that you track that and then you also figure out ways that either through education or finding new tools and resources to become more efficient to shave down those numbers of hours to ensure that you are being profitable in what you're getting as the revenue for that versus what you're expending as far as effort.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yeah, because like you mentioned earlier, Matt, all of if not, that quickly leads to burnout and burnout leads to you no longer working in this industry. I think that's one of the biggest things that I see with planners. And again, I'm not a financial expert, but I can see if you booked that 10K wedding and you worked 200 hours on it because you weren't, you went above and beyond, you didn't stick to what your package outlined, or of course you didn't even have an outline for your package at all, and you were just kind of winging it, you're like, I did not get paid enough for that. And you feel as beautiful of a wedding as it may have been, as big of a package as it initially felt, you feel like I failed there, or this was not what I thought it was. And that just that feeling is not a fun feeling at all. And again, it leads to that burnout and no one wants to be there. That's not a fun feeling to be at. That's not a fun place to be at, but all of this can be it's so preventable. It's so preventable. Is this yep? Now, Matt, the event ledger was built specifically for event professionals, and I love that so much. What made you decide that this industry needed its own tools? And what are the financial patterns that you most see consistently among wedding planners that you wish more of us were aware of?

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Yeah, so for those that of you that may not know my backstory, I started in finance. I worked for a large brokerage firm where I provided retirement planning for your everyday investor. But throughout my 13 plus years uh there, I worked my way up to working with ultra-high net worth families, which we defined as 10 million and above in investable assets with the firm. But somewhere along the way, I lost my interest in the corporate grind and I always had an entrepreneur's heart. And Chrissy, I don't know if you actually know this about me, but my first company was back in college. I created an online business where I sold university apparel and gifts um online.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

No way.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah, I was a computing technology uh and applications miner. I actually built my first website, like I'm talking about like ones and zeros. So uh I built that and created an online um place where people could shop. And I literally I had boxes in the corner of all of my inventory and I would just pack it and ship it. I love that. So I've always had an entrepreneur's heart, and so I think I always had that pulling me back. And so I started in event planning, and some people might be like, okay, Matt, well, how did you get from finance to event planning?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

That jump from you know working your your first gig in college, you know, working out of your condos and your apartments to finance to event planning. Like, how do we get from there to there?

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yeah, so I was a business uh major, and and that's I went to a uh career fair and I linked up with financial firms and it I was hired out of college. So that's kind of just where I went. But in those 13 plus years of working there and specifically transitioning over to our high net worth families, also my job was planning all of our events for those ultra high net worth clients. So I was doing client, so just think I was doing a wedding reception. So I was I was creating these educational talks where we would fly in a speaker, and so you know, we'd have cocktail hour welcome. People would come in, they would sit and listen to the speaker while they're having dinner. So I was essentially creating this reception style event, and I was like, wow, this this is something that really I really enjoy doing. And because it it not only was it on the finance side, which I think I have those, I have the left and the right side brain. I love the detail of the numbers, but I also love the creativity of designing and and what this industry brings. So that is how I made my way into the event planning world. And I had my business for several years, as you mentioned, became a certified wedding planner, a master certified wedding planner. Uh, and so I I've enjoyed that. But as I joined this industry, I started meeting business owners that were just making it work by the sheer passion and drive that they had for their craft and for their clients. But almost always their business was not working as hard for them. So that's when the thought of the event ledger was initially born. And when some personal things happened, which meant that I needed to look at um letting go of my planning business and doing something that I could do 100% remotely. So that is where I decided that I would create this company that was dedicated entirely to creative business owners in the wedding and event industry. And the reason for that is because obviously I have walked in their shoes and I know how this industry operates. So I wanted to give back to the people and to the industry that give so much to others. But you also ask, what is um something that I wish people were more aware of? And this may sound counterintuitive because we've talked about how people might stress over$500 or more, whatever it is, of investing in educational or certification because they feel like that might be a waste. But what I will tell you is that it's the smaller charges that people just they spend every single day that are true wastes of their business because I see what I call the magic ATM mindset. And it's it's a lot of times when people haven't had a structured education on the business side of their craft, they tend to use their bank account for everything. And when I go into this, I'm not necessarily saying that they are spending personal things on their business. Now, there are some people that do. And if you do, don't do that. Don't mix personal expenses and business expenses. But what I mean is that they are expensing every single lunch to the corporate card, they are buying every single coffee on the corporate card, and maybe they are getting a want. So maybe they wanted a new laptop and they're they're using it as a guise under their business to use it as a tax write-off. So while some of those things are legitimate, not all of those things are. So I just want to make sure that everyone is paying attention to how they're using their business funds. And I get it, people are like, well, Matt, I'm saving on taxes. If the more expenses that I have, the less I have to pay in taxes. But what they're really not understanding is they're cluttering their books with those unnecessary expenses and they're clouding their true profit. So when they're looking at their books, they can't tell if the business is actually healthy because of the numbers or if they're buried under those just expenses that they shouldn't be necessarily putting on there. So I would say it's important for you to take a look at the business expenses that you are doing and making sure that they are legitimate and that you're thinking not only on a tax lens, but thinking, how can I save money to reinvest back into the business? And then as this conversation is talking, and back into myself. So how can I use those funds to better myself through education and certification that can really provide true value for the expense versus just going out the door? Like you're not going to get a return on investment for getting a Starbucks coffee. You might for an hour, maybe you banged out, you know, 10 emails off of that caffeine rush, but it's gone after that, you know? Exactly. So it's important that you're not frivolously spending to save on taxes when it's really clouding your business finances and taking away true profit that you could reinvest back into your business and back into your growth. So we at the Event Ledger want to make sure that we're giving planners and creative business owners the tools to treat their business like that separate professional entity that it is, so that they can stop spending their future and start building their future.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Yep, exactly. I think too, what I love the most about the event ledger and and the whole concept of this beautiful company you've built is because you know our industry so well, I feel like you are a safe space to talk about finances, especially when you know, a lot of the times as wedding planners and coordinators, the business side of what we're doing gets so pushed behind that when you finally have to face it and look at it, you're almost facing it and looking at it with shame and with desperation and with like, oh my gosh, I'm an idiot. Like you feel all of those emotions that come with looking at something that maybe you messed up on. So knowing that you have a safe space and a person who knows exactly what your industry is about, knows exactly what you're doing, and can understand, okay, I get it. We messed up. This is how we're going to fix you moving forward. Having that safe space to talk about for something that can be really difficult for some people, I think is very nice. And I think it helps that you have been in our industry. You can speak our language, you know how our mind works. So I to me, I think that's a beautiful thing when it comes to something that can be as emotional and complex and muddy and and as finances can be.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that. And that is something that brings me true joy. A matter of fact, I I had a call with a business owner yesterday, and we sent over a proposal. And while they're going to be out of the office for the next few days, unfortunately, due to a family member passing, they they chose to take the time to reply back and say, hey, I just want to let you know how much better I feel after our conversation. Like we haven't even started working together. Yeah. But just having that conversation to know that like they're validated, that this isn't something that is gonna stop them from doing business, that that only from here on out is gonna be better for them. It's it I do. I feel like people carry this financial weight by themselves because if you think entrepreneurship is very lonely.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah, I mean, yes, we have networking events all the time, but when we talk who talks about money, no one does. Yeah, no one does because it's very personal.

SPEAKER_01 38:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

And so I agree with you, and I think that's that is something that I try to do absolutely 110% is that this is a safe place for you. You don't have to have it figured out before you start talking to us. That's what our calls are for, is to figure out what's going on in your business, what's causing you heart palpitations throughout the day, what's keeping you up at night, you know. So it's all about finding what your business goals and what you're what what you're trying to achieve and what's not working for you now, and then building upon that and figuring out what the game plan is from there.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

Yeah, exactly. Well, Matt, my last question for you is when you look at the way most wedding planners price their services, what's the most common financial mistake you see? And how does getting serious about your professional development, whether that's certification, it should be, or some type of structured education, actually shift that pattern?

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Yep. Yep. We talked about it a minute ago. Pricing on vibes. You can also say that what it's another thing that I call what we call market mirroring, where they're pricing based on what the person down the street is charging. And what I want to mention is when you do that, you're letting a stranger who you don't really know, you don't know what's behind their books. They might be broke, by the way. Yep. You are allowing them to dictate your value. And education specifically, through the CWP Society, shifts this because it moves you away from a commodity to authority. A wedding planner is a commodity. A certified wedding planner is a specialist. Specialists don't look at the person down the street, they look at the value that they provide and the standards they uphold, and that gives them the backbone to say, hey, this is my rate, and it proves why they're worth it. So they can charge that with confidence. The buyer feels that confidence, they feel that value and they're willing to pay for it.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

Yep, exactly. And this is why pricing is such an important part of our certification program. In fact, Lori spends six hours alone talking about how to structure your packages, how to determine your pricing, because it is that important. So when you're just going, figuring out your pricing based off of the planner down the street or based off what you mentioned earlier, the vibes of how much you feel you should charge. The fact that ours is six hours should be like should be a clue of like, oh, this is a lot bigger deal than I thought it was. If they're talking about pricing for six hours, me just getting that planner down the street's pricing, that probably wasn't a good idea for my business.

SPEAKER_02 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

It was not. Well, Matt, thank you so much. This conversation is exactly what I was hoping for. And I think what our listeners are walking away with today, and that's something really important. That the way you think about your own professional development is a reflection of how seriously you take the business you're building. The math, it matters, the strategy matters. And having someone in your corner who understands both the wedding industry and how the numbers actually work, that's not a luxury either. I'm so grateful, Matt, for what you have built with the event ledger. And I'm even more grateful that you have brought your whole self to this conversation again. Thank you for always being here. And to everyone listening, I want to close by saying something directly. If you've been sitting on the fence about certification, I want you to hear this. The investment you make in your credentials is not a vanity purchase, it's not a reward you give yourself when your business is successful enough. It's part of how you build a business that is successful enough. The planners who hold their rates, who attract clients who trust them on instinct, and who walk away with vendor relationships with earned respect, those planners and coordinators made a decision to take their own development seriously. They didn't just rate for the right moments, they made the right moment. So if you're ready to make that decision, the CWP Society's executive and master certification programs are where the work begins. You can learn more and get started by visiting cwpssociety.com. And again, because Matt is here and he's absolutely amazing. Matt is also one of our CWP Society's partners, which means that when you become a certified or master certified member, you get access to an exclusive deal with the event ledger that you simply cannot find anywhere else. That partnership exists because we believe in putting the right tools and services in the hands of the planners and coordinators who were serious about building something real. And the event ledger is exactly the kind of tool and service you need. So if the today's conversation lit something up for you, if you heard Matt talk about the financial side of his work and thought, I've got to be doing this better, I want you to know that the certification isn't just a credential, it connects you to a community, to the resources, and to the partners who are generally invested in your success. Matt, again, thank you so much for being here. Everyone listening, where can we learn more about the Event Ledger?

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yep, you can always visit us at our website at theeventledger.com. You can also follow us and find us on socials at the Event Ledger as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

To our listeners, this is your career. Invest in it like it matters because it does. Again, I'm Chrissy Thomas, and I'll see you next time on the Wedding Planner Society podcast. Bye guys.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

Before you go, we have a little something just for our podcast listeners. If you are ready to elevate your career as a wedding planner or coordinator, you can use code podcast to receive$75 off the executive or master certification program. This code is valid until the next episode releases. So be sure to take advantage while it's available. This offer can't be combined with any other discounts. Visit cwp.com.com. Society.com to learn more.