Integrity In Wedding Planning

Integrity doesn't announce itself — it shows up in the small decisions no one's watching. And in this industry, those decisions either build your reputation or quietly erode it.

Founder and CEO Laurie Hartwell and Senior Educator Krisy Thomas are saying the uncomfortable parts out loud. The gray areas. The shortcuts. The behind-the-scenes choices that couples never see but absolutely feel — through trust, referrals, and the kind of reputation that either opens doors or puts up walls.

They get specific about what a lack of integrity actually looks like: misrepresenting experience, leaning on unverifiable credentials, ghosting clients, overpromising through vague package language, and taking credit for work you didn't do. They also tackle one of the most talked-about hot buttons in the industry right now — vendor kickbacks and referral fees — and walk through how to build a preferred vendor list the right way, so couples understand your recommendations are based on fit, not a financial arrangement happening behind the scenes.

From there, the conversation gets practical. What does integrity actually look like in action? It looks like telling hard truths with care. Owning a mistake before a client hears about it from someone else. Treating every couple with the same level of respect regardless of budget. And showing up for your fellow planners and vendors in a way that strengthens the community instead of competing with it.

Laurie and Krisy also address modern marketing ethics — AI-generated imagery, reposting work that isn't yours, and the ongoing question of whether integrity can be taught at all, or whether education only sharpens skills without touching character.

You'll leave this episode with a clear-eyed look at the standards you can apply immediately, and a strong reminder that long-term success is built on trust you earn repeatedly — not just once.

If this conversation resonates, subscribe, share it with a planner or coordinator who needs to hear it, and leave a review so more wedding professionals can find their way to it.

www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone. Today we're talking about something that can make or break your career as a wedding planner and coordinator. And most people won't say it out loud.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

That's right, Lori. That is integrity. We're not just talking about being a good person. We're talking about the real stuff, the gray areas, the shortcuts, and the things that happen behind the scenes that couples never see.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

This conversation is what this industry needs right now. So today we decided, you know what, let's just talk about it openly and honestly. So let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

You're listening to the Wedding Planner Society podcast, brought to you by the CWP Society.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

All right, welcome to the Wedding Planner Society podcast. Listen, Chrissy and I were talking recently about this topic and it just kept coming up. And honestly, we just felt like it was time to just say it out loud.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

And I know the topic of integrity sounds simple, right? Like, of course, you should have integrity, but when you actually start breaking down what it means in this profession specifically, it does get a lot more layered than just being a good person.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Exactly. Because listen, we're not just talking about honesty in the abstract. We're talking about how you show up for your clients and how you represent yourself in the market and how you treat your wedding professionals and how you even handle things when no one is watching.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

And I think the timing of this conversation is really important because our industry is growing more than ever. You know, we have more people calling themselves wedding planners and coordinators than ever before. And with that growth, let's just say it comes with a wide range of standards.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

A wide range is being so generous.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I do want us to talk about both sides of it, what a lack of integrity actually looks like in this business, but also on the flip side, what it looks like when someone is truly doing it right, because those planners and coordinators do exist and they deserve to be recognized. They really do. So let's get into it. All right, Lori, I want us to start with the conversation of what does a lack of integrity actually look like? And Ken, what do you think that means in this industry?

SPEAKER_01 2:10

All right. So this is really a good way to start this whole thing off. Uh personally, I feel like it means misrepresenting your experience or misrepresenting your title or credentials that help wedding planners and coordinators get booked. Okay, so misrepresenting yourself in general. Another way it kind of shows up is taking those vendor kickbacks that a couple doesn't even know about. So if you are being told by a wedding pro or a wedding venue, hey, we'll pay you for X amount of dollars for every client you send us, that's a kickback. And that's just part of what a wedding planner and coordinator is supposed to do in the first place. So we're not really supposed to get paid for that. So that kind of shows a lack of integrity. Another way it shows up is overpromising to close the sale, but then under delivering, you know, during the wedding planning journey and on the wedding day. And also ghosting. So when you're ghosting clients and vendors and colleagues, you're not showing any integrity. And then maybe even, gosh, this happens a lot in the wedding industry, but it's taking credit for work that just isn't yours. Maybe you're using Google Images as if you did that wedding and you're putting that on your website or or what have you. And it kind of implies that that's your work. That's not showing any integrity.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

A lot of this to me, let's talk, let's first talk about what the misrepresent misrepresenting your experience and also maybe not being honest about your title and your credentials. That I know people in their head, they're thinking, I just want to get my foot in the door. And they're thinking, you know, what's a little fib about how long I've been in this industry? Or, you know, I can say I'm a certified wedding planner, even though I haven't gone through any type of certification program. I know in their head they're thinking this little white lie isn't going to do any harm, but it doesn't just impact you when people find out that you've been dishonest. It also puts a bad taste in the mouth, I think, for the entire industry. It makes all of the planners who are, in fact, decades of experience in or I do have earned my credentials, it kind of puts us in that same bubble of are you also lying about this?

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, that and the fact that, you know, as far as credentials are concerned, first of all, these are verifiable credentials. So people can actually look into it to see if you are. But a lot of times people can tell if you are certified or not just by how you run your business. So if you are claiming that you're certified, but you're running your business as if you're not, that is going to be a really obvious indication that you've been lying. And so it's really bad to misrepresent yourself on any level.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Yeah, exactly. And I I I totally agree with that because I've experienced on the flip side, I have a local venue in my area. And the moment I get an email, I don't before I even get to the signature, I can tell like, oh, this is someone who's been certified.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Oh, you can tell.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

The amount of information they're providing me, I can immediately tell, like, oh, this person is certified. And on the flip side, if I see an email and I'm like, oh gosh, this, I don't think they know what's going on. And then I see certified, I'm like, are you, did you get your education from CWPs? I don't think that's where you gain your certification from. You can just tell.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, you it's it's obvious. But people that don't go through the certification that use these fake credentials, uh, they don't realize how obvious it is. And so, yeah, it's just not something we should do.

Vendor Kickbacks And Trust Problems

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Yeah. Another thing that you mentioned, Lori, I want us to talk about, but we actually dedicated an entire podcast episode years ago about this, but it was all about vendor kickbacks and why this is not this is not how you should run your business. What's wild about vendor kickbacks is I've seen some, and I'm putting this in quotation marks, some educators tell planners and coordinators, well, this is how you get paid as a wedding hiring coordinator, not that you should just have your package fees. You get paid because of your vendor kickbacks. And my mouth drops every time, but it's still something that's being taught in our industry and it is so wrong on so many levels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Well, and and the main reason why it's not an appropriate thing to do in a position like us, right, as a planner or a coordinator, is because a lot of times it's going to cloud the reason why we are making those recommendations to our couples in the first place. So if a couple is trusting me to match them up with, let's just say, an amazing photographer who matches their budget, their style, their personality, and I'm only sending them to a photographer who I know is going to pay me a certain amount of money because I'm sending them that referral. If my couple ever found that out, the couple is going to think, did you refer me because they were really a great match for me and you thought that they'd do a good job? Or did you only refer them because you were going to be able to pocket some cash? That is a problematic situation. And we really do feel very strongly that planners and coordinators, we get paid to match people up. You shouldn't be double dipping in a sense by getting paid by the couple and getting paid by the vendor. Now, if you were not getting paid by the couple, perfectly fine to go ahead and get paid by the vendor if it's only that, but you cannot take the money from both because that's double dipping.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Yeah, it exactly is double dipping. And again, Laura, like you said, it plants that seed of distrust. And so much of what we do as planners and coordinators is create a beautiful path to trust with our couples. And if they're questioning my suggestions because they think, well, you're just getting more money from this, you're suggesting the more expensive photographer, not the one who is going to be really well with me because you're getting a you know a percentage of this. It plants that seed of distrust, and couples don't like it. And I know it's also hurting our industry because for the planners and coordinators who are doing things correctly, where they have this beautiful approved vendor list, they're taking the time to match and pair their couples up with the right wedding pros and they're presenting it to them. Where it's hurting our industry, and I'm seeing it all on social media, is couples are saying if your wedding planner has an approved vendor list or preferred vendor list, it's because they're double dipping, they're getting paid for that. They don't have your best interest in heart. I we I have to fight that. And honestly, I fight it from the very beginning. During my initial consultation, I let them know I just want to give you a heads up. Part of my process is my pre-vendor list, and I explain it to you why I'm so passionate about it. And I also let them know I do not get any funds, a kickback, a referral fee, nothing from my vendors for recommending them to you. If anything, I ask them to give you that discount. I I want to get it in front of it from the very beginning so that way that obviously is going to establish that first layer of trust of knowing I'm recommending these people because they're good at their job, not because I'm getting paid for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

That's right. That's just so important to say at the initial consultation and then maybe even reminding them at the onboarding meeting and maybe at your approved vendor meeting. It's so important to make sure we're reiterating that over and over and over again so that there is no misunderstanding.

Overpromising And Vague Package Language

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Yep, exactly. Now you did mention also the overpromising aspect of the wedding planning and coordinating journey, but then under delivering it when it comes to the planning process or even worse, the wedding day itself. That is a big issue when it comes to integrity. And I think it kind of ties into the first thing we talked about of wanting to get your foot in the door, wanting to close that sale, wanting to book that client, and you're just like, I can do that, I can do that, I can do that. And maybe you don't realize how much work it goes into saying, I can do that. And next thing you know, you can't do that. And you can't meet the commitment that you had promised these couples.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Here's the other part of that is when you are overpromising, a lot of times we're using really vague language to do so. Okay. When we're anytime we're using vague language, what happens is a couple is going to fill in the blanks there. So if there's any gaps or kind of uh language that allows for assumptions or interpretation, couples are going to fill in that to whatever they want to believe. And when that happens, that kind of locks in some sort of belief system that you are going to be doing all of these extra things that's not included in your package. And then it's going to even appear as though you are under under-delivering, even when you might not be. You might be doing exactly what your package says. So that's why it's so, so important to really only use the language that's in your in your packages and make sure your packages don't have any of that vague language at all. That's really, really important. And then stick to that package that you are promising that you will in fact deliver.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah, it kind of reminds me of something that we talk about within the CWP packages that our members can purchase with the ultimate template bundle when we talk about setup, because that vague language, setup to a couple can mean tables, chairs, linens, draping, lighting. That can mean everything when it comes to setup. But if you're not specific about what you're gonna set up, you're gonna find yourself in that situation where you're you're accidentally overpromised and you're now under delivering because we can't do it all.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

We cannot, and we shouldn't. We shouldn't do it all. I mean, we are only one person. I don't own, you know, uh a lift like where I can get up into the ceiling and drape all these things. Plus, you know, you have to think about liability situations. I want professionals to do jobs that they are very um specific in doing. I I only hire and recommend specialists when it comes to certain things. I'm not the person who's going to be hanging string lights from the ceiling. I'm not doing this. Uh so it's really important that we're clear. You have got to be really, really intentional with every single thing that comes out of your mouth from the very beginning to the very end. And that way everybody's on the same page and expectations don't run off with the mood of the day.

Ghosting And Professional Accountability

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Yeah, good point, good point. Lori, you also mentioned ghosting. And I love that you mentioned this because I feel like planners, we sometimes we complain and whine a little bit about when couples ghost us, yet some planners and coordinators are also doing the ghosting, whether it's our fellow vendors and wedding pros or even ghosting your clients. And that can mean two different things. When I think ghosting your clients, I think maybe you told them, hey, I'm gonna have you the floral proposal by the end of this week. End of this week comes and goes, and you haven't provided them with an update. That to me is a sense of ghosting. That that's what dosing can look like. It doesn't have to be as serious as like, haven't talked to them in months and weeks. It doesn't, and I've seen it go that far, but even something as little as you know, promising them one thing and not giving them a follow-up, that to me is a sense of ghosting also.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Anytime you're saying I'm gonna get you something by a certain time and you don't, you just drop the ball. That is that's clean and it's simple. You've got to make sure that whatever you promise, even the smallest, teeniest, tiniest of things, is something that you actually deliver on because that's the only time that you're ever gonna be taken seriously. Your word needs to be your bond, right? It's so, so important. And so you're right, even just the smallest things. If if I say I'm gonna give something to you on a Thursday by 5 p.m., but I don't send it over until Monday, that's a disappointment. You just disappointed that client. You let yourself down and you let the client down. We need to make sure that we as planners and coordinators that when we speak, it means something. And so yes, you're right. It can be something like that, and it could be the real type of like massive ghosting that we are all familiar with, which is you know, we never hear from them again, right? And there are some planners and coordinators, Chrissy, that just don't respond to their couples or their wedding pros in a timely manner. And then you're getting a bad rap and you don't even know that people are going, listen, I can't even count on this person. You know, it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

It's really bad. It really is. It's it's really bad. And again, it's it's all that does is hurt you and your reputation. And your reputation is everything in this industry, and so is the trust factor. And that goes into that trust factor we mentioned earlier. It starts eroding when people can't count on you to do what you say you're going to do.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Now, here's another little thing too. Sometimes something might go into your spam folder and you don't even realize it. That's why it is a responsibility that we as professionals have to take on on a regular basis to maybe once a week go into our spam folder and let's see, did I miss anything? Did something accidentally fall into this folder that I'm not aware of? Because I don't want to receive something and I don't even know that I was sent that. And then it will appear as though I'm ghosting them when I honestly didn't even know it existed. So we again have to take responsibility for it.

AI Images And Stolen Credit

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah. Responsibility into accountability is a lot. Just the to me, apologizing, like, oh my gosh, this fell in my spam folder. I'm so incredibly sorry. Like that to me goes a long way. And I I appreciate when people are accountable for something that they that they've done. I agree. The last thing I want to talk about, when you mentioned Lori, about the lack of integrity, was something that I think is huge, huge, huge, huge now, especially with the beautiful thing that we have with AI. And that is taking credit for work that isn't yours and what that looks like, why that kind of showcases a lack of integrity.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

If you are implying by simply just posting a picture of this amazing event and you created it all through AI, right? And you're not mentioning that this is an AI image, you are implying that that was a wedding that you did. That is a form of misrepresentation. Whenever you are purposefully misrepresenting yourself, that means that you're not showing up with integrity. I mean, you can't get any more basic than that. So you have to be honest and real about everything. So if maybe you want to create more of like an inspirational page, then make sure that they know that these were inspired pictures that you created through AI and that these are things that you can do to help your client bring together their vision. Something like that. But don't pass this stuff off as your own unless it really was.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

Yeah. And then another thing too is whenever if you are using as inspiration another wedding planner's actual work. Oh, damn. That is a really fine line that I've seen on social media, specifically like Instagram, where you're re-sharing, reposting someone else's work, but you're not giving credit to the fact that this was not my wedding, this was another wedding planner. Even I think when you do give credit, sometimes planners are still not comfortable with that. I think about too, like within our contracts, like we like were allowed to use the likeness of our couples based off our contract, but that doesn't mean that you can use them for your own marketing and your own gain. So it's a it's a fine line. And I've seen it a lot where wedding planners are in coordinators are taking other wedding planners' work and trying to pass it off as if it is their own. And even in their head, they're thinking, well, it's someone who's not even in my market. Right. So I can take that. They live in California, I live in Tennessee. Why can't I use their work on my own social media?

Gray Areas And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_01 17:24

It's like, no, no. It's like, what are you doing? So no, we're not supposed to be doing that. So people even to do take screenshots and then use that. So you're you should never do it. You have to always ask yourself, and this is this should be across the board. Always ask yourself, would I want someone to do this to me or my work? If the answer is no, then you shouldn't be doing that. That's integrity. All right, so let's talk about those gray areas that you mentioned, Chrissy, right at the top here, and kind of where integrity gets a little bit complicated. So, what are some of those gray areas?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

I would say when a vendor relationship benefits you and the couple, like you kind of try to figure out, okay, is this going to be a conflict? Is this where it gets a little bit gray? Um, another thing that I think of too is when, let's say that if you are staying silent and quiet when your planner is making a bad decision. And I think to myself, here, is that me showcasing integrity or is that me having self-preservation? Um, another big one, oh gosh, this happened to me personally, is copying another planner's branding, their process, the materials where it is so obvious that it was a copy and paste of someone else's work. Oh, that's a big one where it can get a little complicated. And one question that I've I've had before asked is, you know, what if you call yourself a planner, but all I do actually is just coordination? Does that really matter? Does that is that kind of tiptoeing into that gray area of the lack of integrity, or where does that fall?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, no, that's so interesting. And I love these kinds of gray areas because it's kind of where I thrive because I I feel like gray is okay in a lot of cases, but not when it comes to integrity. So when we're staying silent when a client is making a bad decision, and maybe they're making a bad decision that can hurt one of our wedding pros, or it can hurt just another person, us staying silent too, is uh we're now complicit in this situation, and we need to make sure that if we do need to speak up, we can still speak up and honor everybody at the same time. I think it's really important that we need, I just feel like people need to understand that it's not all so uh cutthroat. If I don't speak up, I'm still going to do so by honoring the couple. I'm gonna honor the person that it might hurt. And I and maybe I'm gonna go to the couple first and say, let me talk to you about this decision you're making. I want you to know that by doing this, it's going to hurt this person. That's not a good situation. It's gonna make me very uncomfortable. If we continue to go down this road, I may have to step down as your planner. That needs to be step one. Because I just want people to know so that we're all on the same page. If this happens, I'm gonna have to do this. There's consequences to certain things, right? Now, if they still choose to continue to make this bad decision, now I feel like, okay, so I've done everything I could privately. Now I'm gonna need to do something different. If that means me stepped down and warned the person that it could hurt, then that's what we need to do. So self-preservation is more of like a bonus thing that you get when you are acting out of integrity. Like to me, that's bonus, and it doesn't have to be an either-or situation. Yeah. Anytime we're acting with integrity, there is going to be some sort of protection there because at least you know that you're doing the right thing. They may not agree, they might be upset with you, they might be, but at least you know you're following your heart and what is right for you. And that's very, very important. Yeah. Talked about copying another person's or planner or coordinator's brand or their materials, or maybe you know, we're talking about maybe the copy on someone's website.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

Yeah, that's that's what happened to me. It was a website copy, and also even social media posts.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

It got to the point where wedding pro, my my wonderful wedding pro friends would text me and be like, it's like clockwork, you'll make a post, and then five minutes later, she'll make the exact same post. And I'm like, it's what?

SPEAKER_01 21:42

And I always say that that's a form of flattery, but I also call it a form of copyright uh issues. It's really important that all planners and coordinators realize that having their own voice is always gonna be better. We wanna know who you are. Are we want to hear from you? We want you to have your own thoughts, opinions, perspectives. That's going to be really, really important. When you're copying someone else's voice or thoughts or expressions or perspective, then are you really showing up in the industry? And the answer truly is no. You are basically becoming a parrot of someone else. I think everybody needs to know that they deserve to be heard and seen individually. You don't have to copy anybody else. You are valued, you are worthy of your own voice. And so make sure that you are sharing that and showing that that's really, really important for me.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

I love that too, because to me, it's also, you know, we talk a lot about finding your ideal client, finding your ideal client. And isn't it a beautiful thing to find your ideal client who connects with you and what you're bringing to the table? Because for the most part, our processes, how they plan, those things are very similar. But what you bring to the table, how you plan your brand voice, that's what's going to attract that person who is going to be your ideal client and make your job fun. I will say, when I notice that planners who just are copying other planners, unfortunately, they're not in this industry anymore. Yeah. It's not, that's not going to serve you in the long term if you want to be a long-term success in this industry. Copying someone's not going to serve you well.

Planner Versus Coordinator Titles

SPEAKER_01 23:21

No, and it's because people notice too. I mean, everybody's going to see it. They notice it. We're all on social media and we can see it. It's obvious because we're following more than one person. And so if two people look exactly the same and we know the one person really well and this other person's brand spake and new, we know who's copying who. This is not a secret. So it's really important that we're all just believing a little bit more in ourselves that we can have our own voice. Uh, let's step up and become unique and be really comfortable in that uniqueness. Now, you asked a really important question here. Uh, and I kind of want to really touch on this about calling yourself a wedding planner. If you're not planning weddings, you're only coordinating weddings, you only have coordination packages, does it matter? I think it does, and let me tell you why. Um there's a two very different types of services. They all end the same, okay, but the journey is very, very different. So when someone is a coordinator, their role is a lot less than, you know, let's say a full service wedding planner. And so if you're calling yourself just a wedding planner, you you may not want to say that because you're not really planning anything. You are taking someone else's plans and you're coordinating and making sure that everything is going well. You're not planning. So it's two very different things. So you can call yourself, if you do both, you can call yourself a wedding planner and coordinator. You can put the slash, you can say or, you can say and or, you can do all of those things. But it's really important to let people know the full length of what it is that you do.

SPEAKER_02 25:01

I think too, making sure you get that term right is also important for the couples because I think when a couple hears oh, they're calling you a wedding planner, yet you're just coordinating, they're they're thinking to themselves, well, why haven't you gone to any of my meetings? Why haven't you done all these extra planning? Sometimes it can create a little confusion for them too. So we want to make sure we're using the right terminology.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

You can. And it's also important to go ahead and educate all of the wedding pros too, because maybe sometimes some of the wedding professionals that are in our industry don't always know the difference between a coordinator and a wedding planner as well. And making sure that they know the difference so that those expectations don't get out of control. Because again, if we're hired as a coordinator and the couple says, I have a wedding planner, and then and they say that to the vendor, and the vendor says, Well, then where are they? Because they're supposed to be so involved, and I haven't heard from any of I haven't heard from anyone, then it's a little bit complicated. It can really erode a lot of our role and without even knowing it. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Now, Laurie, to me, you are the perfect person to ask this question because of how much integrity you have, which is why you've been in this industry for 30 plus years and you've been a success in this industry. What integrity looks like when it's actually done right? I think you're the perfect person for me to talk to about this. What do you think that would kind of entail?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Okay. Well, first of all, thank you for even saying that and knowing that. And I just appreciate it. You know, to me, the way it looks and what way it shows up is when a wedding planner, you know, tells a client maybe some hard truths instead of just what the client may want to hear. Uh, because that's our everyday life. So, you know, a client can want something or say something, but if we know that it's not possible, whether it be uh just because of physics in general or a budget or what have you, we just know it can't be done. We do have to have some hard conversations with our clients. But again, there's always really respectful and kind ways to have these hard conversations and tell these hard truths. Where I feel like a lot of people go wrong is people kind of cop a little bit of an attitude when they have to have hard conversations. They go, oh, well, you know, they kind of get a little in their head and a little bit of an attitude. It's unnecessary. What's interesting and where you really show up with true integrity is when you're able to stay in a really calm position in a in a place, you know, your emotions are not gonna get run off with, and you just say, Listen, I have to have a hard conversation with you. Unfortunately, X, Y, and Z is not gonna work out. So I did come up with a couple of other options that might work. Let's discuss them, and maybe we come up with something somewhere in the middle. And so it's just having respect for each other to be able to speak with to each other with kindness. Another way is like, you know, referring a client out when you're just not the right fit or that you just don't feel like this client is the right one for you. You don't want to hang out with this person for the next year, year and a half. And and referring them not to a bad wedding planner, okay, but to refer them to the very best. Because I think every referral that we as planners and coordinators provide is a reflection of us. And so even if I don't feel like you're a good fit for me as a client, I still want you to have the very best. Yeah, but just there's I can't get around that. That's just how I feel. And so a lot of people say, like, well, what if I have like a villa in front of me and I'm not wanting to take this client? Should I send them? I shouldn't send them to my my planner besties, should I? I don't want to put them on on that. And I always say, well, you know, here's the thing though, just because you guys don't mesh doesn't mean that your planner bestie won't mesh really well. You know, because even people that we don't like have friends, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Someone act someone proposed. Someone, someone proposed to this person. So they're likable.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

Someone likes them. And just because you don't doesn't mean no one else will. So we need to make sure that we're not putting, you know, our opinion above everybody else's opinion because that doesn't make any sense. So definitely still refer your clients that aren't going to be good fits for you to really great planners. Another thing would be kind of just owning your mistakes before um, you know, a client even knows that it happens. You know, if you know something happened, don't wait for them to find out about it through other means.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

Oh gosh, that is my nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Yeah. Just tell them. Just say, hey, we got to talk. I need to let you know about something that just took place. Whatever it might be, maybe you spilled the beans on a surprise or what have you. You've got to make sure that you own that and that you apologize. And here's the hard part take the consequences of those mistakes. We all are human beings, we're going to make mistakes from time to time. Where I feel like a lot of people go wrong is they make the mistakes and then deny that they've even made the mistake to themselves or to the public, and then they don't take accountability and they don't take the consequences, they reject the consequences. I'm like, what universe are you living in? Right?

SPEAKER_02 30:14

One of my biggest eaves is like the lack of accountability. Like that drives me insane.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

This is why we get along so well.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

You made a mistake, figure it out. I will never forget. I had a wedding, it was this December where the sweet bride had self-contained streamers that she wanted to be for the ceremony. And I forgot to put them out. I had them, I had them where I needed to have them. I had it on my timeline reminder to put them out. Got the notification, yeah, need to put those out. Did not put those out. And I realized it as they were walking back down the aisle, and I immediately, you know, they gave them the congratulations, and I was like, I apologize for those streamers. I have them set aside here now because we were going straight into wedding party pictures. We can do them with your wedding party. I sincerely apologize. And she was like, Oh, it's fine. She's like, honestly, that would I wouldn't be able to walk through them. This worked out better. And the pictures are her favorite pictures. Like that's that picture with her wedding party is her profile picture. But oh I owned up to the mistake, figured out a solution so we could still have that beautiful photo. But man, the the five minutes of me being like, you and you're already so hard on yourself in the first place.

Respecting Clients Regardless Of Budget

SPEAKER_01 31:24

And this is what I know about you. You were probably beating yourself up, not just in those few minutes, but probably for like two weeks afterwards. I mean, I just know you well enough to know that. So when you owned it, and that's what's so important, and you were willing to take whatever consequences that that came to you. So that's that, you know what that is? Showing integrity. That's what that is. Um, but another thing was, you know, treating other wedding professionals with respect regardless of what's happening. Okay, so let's talk even about clients. Let's say they have a really low budget. There are some planners and coordinators that treat people really just dismissively. Like it's just like, oh, okay. And it's just, I'm like, ah, why are you treating people like this? It kind of breaks my heart a bit. So it's really important that you know we all remember that these little tiny details about budget, and I say tiny because in the grand scheme of things, how much money someone has means nothing. It's how we interact with one another that means everything. And we just have got to make sure that we're treating others the way that we would hope to be treated in whatever circumstances we were in at any given time.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Can I say I think the reason why this has been so bad all across the board, treating people differently because how much money they're spending is unfortunately our industry and some quote educators, where they are telling wedding planners and coordinators, they're teaching, you don't need to take a wedding unless they're spending six figures on their wedding. And it's it's an immediate, you don't have a hundred thousand plus to spend on your wedding. I'm not gonna take your wedding. And couples, it's it's it's gotten so bad. Couples are feeling that they're seeing to them, they're thinking, I can't hire professionals unless I'm spending a hundred thousand dollars plus on my wedding. And it, y'all, it is a ripple effect of how much it's harming our industry.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Because what what we have to think about the message, right, that we're sending. We're sending a message to couples that say, you can't even afford to have and hire real professionals. And then we're thinking that we're helping, we're not helping. That's not helping anyone, that's not helping the the couples, and that's not helping wedding professionals, these small businesses that are trying to just make a living and to get by. We need to do a better job as professionals as a whole in this entire industry to make sure that we are not saying these really hurtful things anymore because it's it's hurting people's feelings too. And a lot of people are like, oh, why would you, you know, we need to stop caring so much about hurting people's feelings. Can I ask why?

unknown 34:01

Why?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Why should I ever say, oh, we we're being everybody's so sensitive? How about this? How about I go out of my way to never hurt someone else's feelings or to judge someone for how much money they have? How about we just stop judging people and then the hurt will probably go away? And I shouldn't be uh upset with the person who I'm hurting. That doesn't make any sense. Oh, we're so sensitive. There might be a reason. How about we respect their reason? So I feel like what we need to do better is to care more. That's what we need to do better about everybody, but whatever situation that they find themselves in. Money is hard right now. I mean, everything is so much more expensive. Everything just feels like we're kind of walking or running through honey, right? It's just slower, it's tougher, it's gonna take longer to save. And because of all of that, I why can't we just be a little bit more sensitive and stop actually hurting ourselves? We are hurting our industry by saying, You can't have a wedding for that amount of money for less than that. Why are we talking to people like this? Would you when's the last time you spent a hundred grand on a day? Explain that.

unknown 35:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

So why aren't we caring a little bit more and stop being so stuck up and stuffy and you know, just get back down to earth and remember that we are all human beings just trying to survive? And I know that if someone came to me with as little as$10,000, I would try to figure out a way to get that$10,000 to work for them. And now that would mean that I'd have to have what? Hard conversations with my couples by saying, You're uh guess count, we're gonna have to lower that to practically nothing. We're going to need to, but we can have an amazing meal and it's gonna look fabulous, and the the centerpieces are gonna be fantastic. I'll find a way to make something out of whatever they have. I will give the right information, I will give the right guidance, but turning away someone simply because they don't have the budget to have the full whatever it is in my own head, that doesn't make any sense, and that's not fair. Another thing that we have to think about is like, you know, working alongside a planner with integrity actually feels and looks different than when you are working alongside a planner or coordinator who does not work with integrity, doesn't have the real integrity. And I feel like that's something you just instinctively know the second that you're around someone, you go, mmm, okay. Yeah, there they may not be on the level. You know what I mean? And so I don't I can't trust people that have integrity.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

You feel I I personally feel and I can tell it's almost I feel uncomfortable. Yeah, I don't feel comfortable sharing certain things. I don't, I have my guard up because I don't want that, I don't want my couples or me to be taken advantage of if I'm working with someone who I can tell lacks integrity. That guard is up. And again, I that kind of the trust is like, yeah, we don't have trust.

Safe Spaces And A Domain Theft Story

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, I'm saying nothing. You just have to keep quiet. We need to sometimes remember that wedding planners and coordinators have a very, very stressful job, and we need to be each other's safe place sometimes because nobody's really gonna understand what each other's going through except for your fellow planners and coordinators. Even our family members don't fully understand the level of stress and pressure that we feel on a daily basis. And because of that, we need to be a little bit more vulnerable with one another and kinder to one another, and a safe space for someone to go, this is something I'm afraid of, or this is something that I'm wondering about, and it be safe and not spread around and used against you as a weapon. That's so incredibly important.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

There's a um a story, I think I shared this with you, Lori, where there is a wedding planner who she what what she does is like with websites, for example, with your domain, you know, it expires after a certain while if you don't renew it. Yes. She stole a wedding planner's domain a day after it expired and went and was like, Oh, I'll give it back to you for an ungodly amount of number money. Oh, that and I I will never forget that story, but it's planned to see. I'm so paranoid now about my own website domain. Of course, I've got an auto, but even when I know what's coming up, I'm like, oh gosh, oh gosh, let me just go ahead and pay it now. Like I get so paranoid from it. But also anytime I, if I there's an opportunity where there's a networking event or I know I'm gonna run into this planner, I am just like, hi, yeah, too far away.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Yeah, I mean, so you know this person, that's scary. Um, so it's that is a really good example of not doing the right thing, right? And so integrity means doing the right thing even when no one's looking. And so you you've got to make sure that you ask yourself if you're one of those people that would do something as hurtful as that is. I mean, it's one thing to go, oh, it's it's available and then buy it. It's another thing to go, oh, oh my gosh, I am so sorry. I'm going to find a way to get this back to you. Just reimburse me for the 10 bucks or whatever, like whatever it is. But to sell it for thousands and try to sell it for thousands of dollars back to someone, that tells me what kind of person you are. So why aren't I think that person needs to ask themselves, why am I showing up like this? What am I getting out of that? Because let me tell you what other people are seeing. Other people are seeing someone they can't trust, someone they don't want to have anything to do with. They are seeing someone who's not very friendly, and you're not being seen as this guiding light that you must think you are. And maybe you are acting this way out of hurt or some sort of something that has happened to you. But here's what I can tell you you are the only person responsible for yourself and how you show up from this moment forward. You can do better and you should do better. So we all need to kind of just show up better and it and listen, we are all those those with integrity are going to distance ourselves from those without integrity.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

I love that you refer to that, Lori, as the guiding light because that describes you to a T and your level of integrity. Like that's you are that guiding light that quite literally describes you, and you're probably the one you know the people I know with the highest level of integrity completely. So I love I love the way that you phrase that.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Well, you're sweet. I appreciate that.

Can Integrity Be Taught

SPEAKER_02 40:55

Now, before we wrap up, I do have a few more questions that I want us to kind of chit-chat and talk about. And the first one is do you think, Lori, that integrity can be taught, or is this just who you are at your core?

SPEAKER_01 41:08

This is such a good question. And the truth is, my husband and I just had this conversation the other day because we were talking about someone in our life that does not show up with integrity. And and I was asking him, I'm like, do you think that this is just who they've always been and we didn't know it? Or, you know, what could this be? And we didn't come up with an answer, but I do think, and this might be just because I I like to think in in this optimistic of a way as I possibly can, but I'd like to think that people can change. I'd like to think that people can see the error of their ways and maybe go, you know what, this hasn't been working for me, and I'm I'm acting like this because X, Y, and Z. And that is from the past trauma or what have you. But I don't want to be that anymore. And I want to go towards this direction. I think it's possible. I do too. I don't see it a lot, but I think it's possible. But I don't know. I wish I had that answer. I I don't actually, I've never been here, I can teach someone how to be a great wedding planner. I can teach you all the tools, the processes, um, how to show up, but I don't know how to teach someone to be great. And I don't know how to teach someone to be a good person. I don't know how to do that, but I can give you all the tools.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

I can teach them everything. Yeah, you can give them the tools. You lead by example too. So it's like you can see what having integrity and being a good person looks like in the operation of being the wedding planner. But it kind of reminds me, what's that saying? Like you can lead a horse to water, but it's up to them to drink.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

I think this is the same thing. Like they can know between they can know right and wrong, but it's up to them to choose the path they want to go down.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

And and is it a bad habit? I don't know. Maybe it's just a habit forming thing. You know how some people complain a lot. Yeah. Every time you're around them, it's like a Debbie Downer, like, oh, whoa is making on this. Yeah. It's like, okay, that I think is more habit forming. I think they just got into a habit where maybe they don't know positive things to talk about and they have to kind of train themselves. Okay, well, next time I see that person, I don't want to say all the things that are going wrong in my life. I want to talk about all the positive things. That's a habit. Maybe that's all this whole thing is that we're talking about. Maybe you just need to get in a better habit of having better behaviors. Yeah. Maybe that's it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Lauren, do you think the industry attracts certain personality types that possibly struggle with this?

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Actually, I think the opposite. So I think wedding planners as a whole have hearts of gold. I think the majority. I think they're, of course, there's always going to be the few that are in it really for the notoriety or to get published and to be, you know, famous or whatever you. They only want to work with luxury clients who are celebrities. I don't know. Those people I can't speak to very much because that is such a minority. In our industry. But I can tell you that the majority of those who get into our industry as wedding planners and coordinators, I genuinely feel like they have hearts of gold. They want to help people in every single aspect. And sometimes that almost goes too far. Now they become, you know, people that everybody walks all over because they say yes to everything. So that is actually where I find myself trying to teach wedding planners more boundaries than to tear boundaries down. Because some, you know, if if they were more filled with not having integrity, right? If they were people that showed up that were just harsh, unkind, never did the right thing, I feel like I would be training a lot more people on how to soften. I feel like I have to train more people that they're worthy of the word no. And so I feel like our industry attracts the type of personalities that are kind and generous, beautiful souls.

Can Education Shift Ethics

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah. I a thousand percent agree with you. Now, Lori, do you think certification or education can shift someone's ethics, or do you think it only impacts your skills as a wedding planner or coordinator?

SPEAKER_01 45:15

That's a really good question. Uh so again, I think it's it depends on the intention of the person. What is someone's end game? What do they want out of education or certification? Is it just to hang a certain certificate on the back of the wall so that it shows up in pictures? Okay. Then no, uh, I can't help you with ethics at that point. I don't even know if I can help you with the skills. You're in it for the wrong reasons. Certificates and and certification, you know, credentials, education, really, it's about transformation. Okay. And we, if you're not going through this to go through that transformation, to elevate yourself, to become a better version of yourself than when you entered, then you're you probably shouldn't bother, really, is what it comes down to. So I do think that education can shift people's ethics if it's the first time that they're kind of learning that you don't have to be shady to be successful. Yeah. It's the first time that they're learning that they don't have to uh trick people into hiring them. That it can all happen on the up and up, and us just being really proud of what services we offer and that it's no pressure, either hire me or don't. I accept whatever, and I wish you the best. If you don't, I'm good. You know, if this is the first time they're learning that you don't have to be a poo-poo face in order to get business and to be successful, then yes, I think it can shift someone's ethics. Yeah. But I can tell you 100% that if someone's mind is open, it will 100% shift your skills and it will a hundred percent elevate you. I was just on a two-hour call this morning with an amazing wedding planner, and I saw within two hours a completely different mindset. And that is inspiring. It is inspiring to me. So yes, I I know that it can.

Raise Your Standards Starting Tomorrow

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah, absolutely. Lori, one last question. What's the one thing a planner or coordinator could do tomorrow to raise their own standards?

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Okay. So I personally don't feel as though we should ever just be content with wherever we are in this moment. I think we should always be asking ourselves every single day, am I doing this at the highest level possible? Is there something about whatever situation I'm in that I can learn from and be better at tomorrow? You know, I'm always asking myself, and that's really the important part is to make sure that you're not thinking about how it can help other people, but it's how can I help me? How can helping myself and investing in myself actually improve the experience that my clients and my wedding professionals can have? And how can it improve the experience that I'm having as the wedding planner or coordinator? And if we just need to make sure that we never get to a place where we say, you know what, I got it, I've got everything I need. I don't learn anything more, I don't need to take any more classes, I don't need to sit through any more workshops. So, what is the one thing that a planner could do tomorrow? I would say, you know, educate yourself. Make sure that you are, if you so all my certified educators or certified uh wedding planners and master certified wedding planners and our certified wedding associates, you know what they do, Chrissy? They take our workshops, the free ones that are included in every single one of these certification programs. And they're they're free every single week. Like there's not a week that goes by where they don't have in you know free education just sitting there for them. And it's not like a 20-minute snippet, it's a full hour. And sometimes, if I have a lot of questions, I'll stay on for two and a half hours, if that's what it takes. So do this one favor for yourself. My certified members, they're always plugged in to all of our weekly workshops and they're never wanting to ever stop learning. If you're not certified yet and you aren't plugged into a system, I would say go ahead and get plugged into an organization that feels right for your heart, feels right for your soul, and then never stop learning from that day forward. Because here's one thing that I can promise you in this industry: it is ever-changing. There is never a moment where it's like, oh, it's finally stopped and it's not going to evolve anymore, right? Like it's just nope. Especially in this world of technology, things are changing constantly and we're having to always recalibrate and figure out a way to pivot so that we can keep up. And but the point is not just to be keeping up, it's to try to stay a step or two ahead. So it's really, really important that you guys all do that one thing for themselves. So whether you're certified or not certified, never stop learning and make sure that you're learning from the right sources.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Preach. Amen. I'm gonna pick you back off the right sources. You want to find an organization that practices what they preach. Okay. We are talking, this whole episode has been all about integrity. And that is what you will find when you come become part of the CWP Society family. Every single thing we do is operated with integrity in the forefront of our minds. So keep that in mind when it comes to where you're growing, where you're getting your education, and where you want to elevate. So whether you are just starting out as maybe if you are an wedding day assistant and you're and you're wanting to grow, let's say maybe our certified associates, if you guys are tuning in and you want to grow as a certified wedding planner, or even if you are not quite yet certified and you want to become the highest tier, which is our master certified wedding planner level, guess what? You can. You CWP Society is here to serve you at every single level. You can visit CWP Society.com to learn more. Lori, thank you for joining me for this week's podcast episode. I guess I hope we see you next week. Bye y'all. Bye y'all.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

And before you go, we've got a little something just for our podcast listeners. If you're ready to elevate your career as a wedding planner or coordinator, you can use code podcast to receive$75 off the executive certification program. This code is valid until the next episode releases, so be sure to take advantage while it's available. This offer can't be combined with any other discounts. Visit CWP Society.com to learn more!